I finally did it. This is Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 5, a game that is a truly depressing and lifeless experience. We all knew it was going to be terrible, but how bad did it really turn out. I’ll show you. Thoroughly.
When screenshots first landed for THPS5, it looked bad. Everyone was saying that it just looked like a PS2 game. The PS2 games were good, and I wasn’t overly concerned yet. If it looked like Project 8, I would have been more nervous. At least the PS2 versions were good. So if it looked and played like one of the older games, that would be okay with me. Especially since it was going to be released as a budget game. Or was it? That was the rumor at least, but they eventually announced that it would be $60. And then the news came out that their contract with Tony Hawk was going to run out at the end of 2015, and this game was being released on a tight deadline. In retrospect, it was obviously a last second cash grab.
Still, I was cautiously optimistic. I didn’t preorder it or anything, but if it got reviews around 6/10, I’d go for it. I’m the target audience of this game exactly. I played every other Tony Hawk game made and I have tons of nostalgia for the Pro Skater days.
Oh. Yeah. I’ve avoided this one for a long time, but I have to play it. And hopefully I can relieve you of any morbid curiosity the game may have. It’s still $20, even though everyone hates it. And I’m telling you: buying this game will make your life worse. Here’s why.
The game started with a really bad impression. Right on the main menu, there’s a warning about having the patch installed, and it messing with my save file. I don’t have a save file, and I have the patch installed. It should probably check for that before it warns me. But no, this is a permanent warning that will be there every time you start the game.
Also, yeah, the game was unplayable off the disc. Only the tutorial and the create a park mode were available from the start. The entire rest of the game was patched in later.
Anyway, it starts with the tutorial. Things are a bit different from the rest of the Tony Hawk games. Now you have to push and brake with the triggers. It’s not a big deal, but it feels weird. There are a lot of times you’ll need to slow down to turn around, and holding down on the d-pad just doesn’t do it. I mean, sometimes it does. But the trigger is what it wants you to do.
Other things changed too. They added in a stomp mechanic, where you hit the grind button in the air and you’ll slam down to the ground. Aside from the moon physics level that I’ll talk about later, you’ll probably never want to do this. But if you’re like me and you have muscle memory for hitting the grind button early, you’ll find yourself slamming down right before a rail instead of landing on it. Shouldn’t they have put this on the ollie button? It’s not like you use that in the air, right?
The last big change is how the special meter works. It fills up like normal, and after you land a trick, you hit the left bumper to turn it on. If you have to activate it with a button, it would make more sense to let you activate it right after you get it, right? Instead of having to land your current combo first? For the high combo challenges, you don’t get a chance to ever use your special. But you won’t want to anyway, because it doesn’t do anything good.
Remember in the old games, when every character had unique tricks that belonged to them? Like down, right, grab was the 900 for Tony Hawk? Rodney Mullen had darkslides? This game works totally different.
Hitting the special button just replaces your main tricks. Kickflips and heelflips become triple flips. Varial flips become 540 flips. Your grinds are just generic specials from older games. And your special meter runs out on a timer, regardless of what you’re doing. You can’t keep it full by getting tons of points like the old games. This is a stupid change. And they only did it because it’s less work to have every character play the same.
But wait, if your single flips are now triples and they take a lot longer, won’t that mess with your timing? Probably not. You can land these tricks part way through. The game doesn’t care. Most of the time at least.
Aside from these new things, there were tons of things that were removed. Hidden combo tricks, like doing a shove it and hitting the flip button twice to do a 360 shove it are gone. Tapping buttons to switch grinds is gone. Pivoting in manuals is gone. Getting off your board is gone. Freestyle tricks are gone. It plays almost like they took the trick set of Tony Hawk 2, removed half the tricks, and added spine transfers and wall plants back in.
Oh, and kind of reverts too. But they used the animation of switching stances around. This is not what a revert looks like. There’s no way they didn’t know that. It’s just pure laziness.
In fact, all of the animation is trash. The shove its are really flat. Frontside ones especially have a lot more pop than that. This just looks awkward and weird to me.
The varial kickflip is weirdly off axis. It kind of nose dives, and it’s hard to even tell what’s going on with it. Is it really that much less work to do everything wrong? Wouldn’t it have taken just as much time to make these tricks look okay?
Varial heelflips are the same way of course. They probably just mirrored it.
Inward heelflips aren’t too bad, but the nollie ones are messed up. They flip normal instead of nollie. Is that a throwback to Pro Skater 2? No, it’s just weird. Actually, they can animate right if you’re careful. But if you hit up-right on the dpad a millisecond early, you’ll do a ‘nollie no comply’ and then you’re in regular stance again. Hey, they added a new trick. But its only purpose is making the game look and feel worse.
Here’s the front foot impossible. Which, for this guy, is just up and flip. That’s a long animation trick for a single button flip. Usually something like that would be a double tap. Anyway, it looks okay at first, but look close. The board teleports to 90, then stays there for a second paused, and then suddenly speeds up the rest of the way around. Why?
Oh, and it doesn’t animate right in nollie or fakie. Neither do regular impossibles.
Even plain kickflips do the jerky speed up thing. I think the game wants to feel responsive, so right when you push a button, you’re suddenly part way through the trick. But it just looks so stiff and unnatural. Didn’t they have motion capture data sitting around somewhere? Couldn’t they have just played Skate 3 and looked close and copied everything?
OK, but what about the two heavy hitters, hardflips and 360 flips?
One of the first videos I made on this channel was about hardflips in old skateboarding games. They were almost always wrong. Some games just had pop shove its for hardflips, and it confused all my friends growing up as to what the trick actually was. But that was 20 years ago.
The good news is that it’s actually a correct hardflip, even though it’s not a cool flat one. The bad news is that it looks terrible. Just look at this. It’s like he’s floating in the air and pushing the tail down to make it flip instead of popping it up off the ground. I get that these have to be animated to still make sense in mid air, but that doesn’t explain why this looks like garbage.
What about 360 flips? This is another one that games have a hard time doing. The THPS2 one looked really good, but some of the later games had trouble because of the way you did it by double tapping flip on a varial kickflip. It had to modify the trick part way through the animation, which didn’t look as good.
So I tried every button combination with Tony Hawk, and he doesn’t have the 360 flip. Down down flip is actually a double impossible for him, which is weird. But guess what. Nobody in the game has 360 flips. It’s the most iconic skateboarding trick of all time other than plain kickflips. Nobody has it. You can’t modify tricks or buy more later like Tony Hawk 2. They’re just not there. Why? So people can have body varials and board varials? Great work Robomodo. You’ve really got your finger on the pulse of modern skateboarding. Or, skateboarding from after 1990 or so at least.
The sound is terrible too. There’s no npcs wandering around and talking, there are no bird chirps or planes flying by or traffic noises or anything. I get that it was designed for online players to be skating around, but even with them, the game feels lifeless and dead because of the sound design.
Ok so let’s get into the career mode. After the tutorial, you’re just playing the game. I never got the choice to pick my character, so I’m just playing as Tony Hawk throughout the whole game. Apparently, I had to go to ‘customize skater’ on the main menu before starting the game. Would it have been so hard to let me pick my character before I started? You could do that on the PS1. Stupid.
It doesn’t matter though. Remember in the older games, where the characters played differently? Steve Caballero had good vert stats, and Jaime Thomas had good street stats? That’s gone. Everyone has zero on everything. In fact, you can barely do a 180 with the base stats. With a ton of air on vert, you can just barely pull around a 360. You won’t notice this much in the footage, but that’s because I put a ton of my stat points into spin early because I hated how this felt. But you would have the same experience no matter who you picked. These aren’t characters, they’re just skins.
So you start a level in free skate mode, with events, or what the game calls ‘missions’, on these map markers. But before you do those, there are free skate challenges, like getting the SKATE and COMBO letters, collecting a level specific thing, like crates or school bells or whatever, and collecting a secret tape AND a secret DVD. Good job on creativity. This is worse than the original games though of course. Because it has to be. The COMBO letters are usually pretty easy to get. Although at least once I phased through a letter a couple times in a line that had a really weird misaligned gap in it. But it’s almost always really easy. Which is good because there’s no retry. In free skate, if you mess up, you just have to skate back to the starting point manually and try again. If the lines are kind of long, it can take a while.
Pro tip, if you collect a few SKATE letters or collectibles and then do a challenge, they’ll reset. So I tend to do that stuff first. I shouldn’t be giving you tips for playing this game, because you shouldn’t be playing it.
There are two ways to start a mission. You can skate up to a map marker, carefully brake to a full stop, and hit the button. Remember how in the old games, you’d get a little bit of story? Like, “On no, all of my [insert collectible here] blew away, can you go get them?” I actually complained about those in my reviews of earlier games because it slows down the flow of the game, but having that missing here is actually so much worse. I went up to a marker, and now I’m smashing drones. Why? Yes, this is a Tony Hawk game. No, it doesn’t have to make sense. But it’s just random crap. Why am I constantly trying to clear balls out of pools in every level? It’s all so pointless.
The other way to start a mission is to just open the menu and pick it. That’s what you should do.
It’ll give you the option to play a lot of missions co-op. I never did this once. It really wanted to make this an online experience, but I don’t want that at all. And the choice is made for you anyway. There’s nobody playing anything other than the first few levels. And I saw an article that said the PS4 version doesn’t even work anymore. “Luckily” – that might be the wrong word – the game is still functional on the Xbox. At least, as functional as it ever was, which is not very much.
So what kind of stuff do you do in this game? Mostly wait. The load times are terrible. This game doesn’t look good obviously. It shouldn’t be taxing the system so much. So you pick a mission off the menu, then you have to wait a while before it starts loading. When I first started the game, I thought the retry button didn’t work because it lets you keep playing while you wait for it to start loading.
Then it loads the same level you’re already in for an eternity, then drops you in the level part way through, long before the textures are even in.
All it’s doing is moving you around in the level and loading in some mission specific things, like floating spheres or something, right? Why isn’t this instant? Honestly though, you’ll be happy for the reprieve you get when you can finally not play the game for a minute.
The loading times when you finish a level are even worse. I beat a high score in the second level and it took 40 seconds to load. That’s ridiculous. But it got even worse later on in the level. I beat a mission here, and I just got stuck. It said that the game lobby was full. I think we both know that wasn’t true. And it said there was too much server activity. Again, come on. Of course there wasn’t any server activity. After 2.5 minutes, I gave up and closed the game and relaunched it.
Anyway, the first event type is high score. That’s fine. That’s a standard thing for the series, and it would be weird if it weren’t there. But there are 7 different types of high scores.
First, just a normal high score, anywhere in the level.
Second, a high score, but restricted to a certain area. This can be a pool, a particular building or zone. So it’s the same thing, but worse. I don’t particularly have fun watching for borders or cones when i’m trying to skate around.
Sometimes in these mission types, it’ll forbid reverts or manuals or something for a tiny bit of variety. I don’t mind that I guess.
Third is the high combo score. Not really much to say there. Later on in the series, the high score and high combo are basically the same thing, except you might be able to fit 2 or 3 combos in a high score challenge.
The fourth one is a high combo, but off of a mega ramp. Most levels have some kind of mega ramp style jump somewhere. And it’ll always ban manuals. So you have to do a crazy air, and just maybe land on a rail. The high scores are way too high to just do in a single air, but the levels aren’t designed to actually keep going at all. Like, look at this one. I can do this big combo in the air and spam the few flip tricks I have, and surprisingly there actually is something to grind this time. But then the only other thing I can get to without a manual is this. I can’t get anywhere near the sick score on these. I’m not sure what else I’m expected to do. But it says a lot about the level design. A lot of the time, you’re expected to piece together really crappy lines, instead of obstacles leading to the next one, like they did for the rest of the series.
5, 6, and 7 are just variations on a different scoring method. It’ll be something like this – “your score is determined by your airtime times your trick multiplier.” In other words, spend 2 seconds in the air and you’ll get 2 points. But if you have a 5x multiplier, you’ll get 10 points. At least, I think that’s how it works. The score goes up regardless of whether you bail or not, and the multiplier isn’t retroactive. So with the air ones, here’s what you do. Do lots of kickflips on vert. You can mix it up and do shove its if you want. But all you need is to get your multiplier up. You don’t need to worry about what the tricks are worth. That’s it. Keep it going, and you’ll score way over what the goal was. Does this look fun to you?
At least that one is easy. The other ones aren’t. It’s the same thing, but with manual or grind distance. Just try to do big combos with lots of grinds or manuals and you’ll probably be okay. But sometimes they put you in really bad spots to do it. Especially the manual one.
So in theory, you’d do the same thing as the airtime. Do lots of kickflips, then manual around to the next quarterpipe. But they’ll restrict the level for these. In this one, I only have this back area. There’s a boost on the ground which leads to a quarterpipe, which is great, but going back the other way, there’s just a wall. I tried to ollie over it and wallplant and come back that way, but that’s pretty clunky and the distance you get on that is inconsistent. You can’t really turn left and find anything over there, because you’ll go out of bounds.
Or how about this one? I’m on a train track. I have some space to do flips or grinds, but I can only stay in this loop. This jump will throw me out of bounds, and I need it to get my multiplier up. If I try to grind here, it throws me out of bounds too. Why limit me to the worst possible area? It’s so frustrating. Although they tried to warn me with the name – “Manual Maladroit.” All the mission names are stupid, and this one literally just means ‘bungling or clumsy’.
Oh, and something I noticed when I was doing manuals is that you can’t bail them. If you lose balance in a manual, one way should make you land, and the other way should make you bail. In this game, you’ll land either way. Kind of weird. Grinds are kind of the same, but not always. So don’t trust them as much.
So yeah, that’s 7 different kinds of high score, and there are only 10 missions in every level, not counting the ones you unlock when you finish everything with a sick rating. I never did that on any level so I didn’t try them. But still, this takes up a lot of the game.
The next mission type could technically be considered a high score challenge too. It’s an exploding head event. Your head keeps inflating and you have to land tricks before it reaches 100% and explodes. It’s like getting a high score, except you have to land stuff more frequently and not get a big combo going. This is frustrating on levels like this one with moon physics. If you’re in the air for a minute at a time, it’s harder to make sure you’re landing tricks enough. But overall, this entire mission type is easy.
Let’s talk about the moon physics for a second. The levels all have powerups. Your board can catch on fire, get zapped with electricity or even get wings. I have no idea what the wings do. But they probably help you get to an area somewhere I guess. There’s a powerup to get really big in this level, which lets you break through this grate and go down in the sewer. This would have been an interesting secret area, except that the missions take you down there enough that you already knew it existed.
This powerup makes you small, which lets you go through these small openings to other areas. I don’t hate the powerups for the most part. They’re kind of dumb though. I would have rather they focused on getting more tricks in the game, or reanimating the ones they put in already. Or maybe adding in some sound effects. Or maybe adding in a create-a-skater. Or maybe figuring out how to reduce load times.
But the moon physics one is the worst. Yeah, moon physics is an old school cheat code from the original games, and it’s iconic for the series. I get why they wanted to put it in. And I even get why they would put it in the Asteroid Belt level. But it’s actually the worst possible level for it. It’s designed with all these drops and gaps that lead to your death. So, since you ollie and then fly all the way across the level where you can’t see, there’s a good chance you’ll end up going too far off the edge. This is the level that requires the most precision, and yet they give you a powerup that takes all of your precision away. Thanks.
Here’s an example. This is a regular high score challenge. There’s nothing particularly weird about this one, other than the fact that they put you on this little area off to the side of the main level. You can try to skate around in this area, but it’s late enough in the game that the high score totals are up there, and it helps to be able to move around a little more and get some gaps and stuff. But here’s the thing. If you grind this bridge to get out, you can’t possibly make it. This was the first thing I did in the level, so I didn’t know about the powerup yet, but I eventually found it. With that, you can clear it to the other side, but now you have moon physics and you’ll miss your grinds, or you’ll air out of the side of a quarter pipe. Even with the new slam down ability, you don’t have enough precision to land a good combo. I had a ton of trouble with this high score. Much more than the higher totals in later levels.
OK, so let’s say you finish a mission. What happens? You get stuff – experience, money, and emblems. What do these things mean? I don’t know. I haven’t seen anything you can spend money on. I think it might be character modifications though. Not tricks of course, but shirts or whatever? Who cares. And there are stat points. Can you apply them right away, like in Tony Hawk 3? Nope. In fact, I had no idea what to do until I finished the entire first level. I tried to open up a level select option somewhere, or find a bus that takes me to the next area like in American Wasteland or something. But all you can do is quit the game and go back to the main menu. Then you can go to the customize skater screen and add the points there. It’s weird and clunky, but what else would you expect?
What else is there to do other than get high scores in different ways? Oh man, there’s so much. You’re going to love it.
First is Simon says. Remember that throwaway event in Pro Skater 4 and the underground games where you do tricks that a pro calls out to you, maybe at an demo or something? Yeah, it’s that. Except they pull a sneaky on you and add in tricks that you’re not supposed to do. Also, why put ‘says’ in quotes? There are 8 tricks in the game. Couldn’t you actually record tony hawk saying the trick names? I’m sure it would be annoying, but having someone yell at me might keep me awake.
By the way, what would you think you’re supposed to do when it gives you a fake trick to do? At first, I would just do something different to dismiss it so I can get the next one. But what it wants you to do is wait a while until it goes away on its own. That keeps your multiplier going. I did this wrong throughout most of my playthrough.
But okay, if I had to do this once in the game, I wouldn’t blow my brains out. But you’ll do this constantly.
Ok, what’s next? Maybe we’ll skate over here, and… oops. Oh. I’m completely stuck inside a ramp. Awesome! Is this finally an excuse to stop playing the – oh crap I made it back out.
The game isn’t as glitchy as pro skater hd, and it’s not as bad as it was when it launched. But you’ll have some annoying moments. Like this one, where I get so high on a ramp that I bail even though I landed straight. Or here, where I’m doing a nose manual and suddenly i’m doing a manual and my combo is reset. This stuff isn’t all that common, but if it was, it would at least make things a little more interesting.
OK, let’s look at some more events. You get to ride through rings! This is not fun at all, and it’s just the first of many missions where it wants you to skate around on a specific path. I get absolutely no enjoyment out of these. And it’s frustrating when you don’t know which way you’re supposed to go. It can take a few tries to get used to the route.
After that is delivery missions! These require you to pick up stuff, usually food, and take it somewhere in the level. For some reason, your head is expanding, like a makeshift timer to let you know you need to make multiple deliveries I guess? I don’t know. I hate these. And of course the moon physics one was nearly impossible. But I soldiered through because I love you.
Next up is the pellet collector missions. There are different color coded balls around that you have to get by doing a certain type of trick, like air, grind or manual. These aren’t so bad at first, but this one later in the game is brutal. You have a very specific route, and they keep screwing with you. They tend to put the first ball way too close to the start of a rail. So you need to use the stomp move to land really early. Sometimes the rail will jog over and it’ll be almost impossible to make the gap. Sometimes the red air balls will be in the wrong spot for where you end up. This one had an ollie I couldn’t possibly clear with my stats being where they were. I shouldn’t have put everything in spin right away, but I couldn’t play the game otherwise.
There are also collecting missions, where you’re supposed to have a multiplier when you collect stuff, I guess? I’m not exactly sure how this one works, but it’s easy enough. Just do combos while you collect stuff, which is probably what you would be doing anyway.
Here’s a new one – shoot targets with flip tricks. The first time you do this, I was really confused. In theory, you’re supposed to be shooting targets with rockets, but they’re all in this little area. Some of them are almost impossible to get, like if they’re around a curve. I figured out that you can just run into them. Which is probably easier.
I give them some very mild credit for mixing this up a little. Sometimes it’s rockets, sometimes fireworks, sometimes it’s dynamite. But it’s never fun.
Here’s the worst event type – clearing balls out of pools. You just run into beach balls, or sports balls or whatever and try to push them out of the pool. At least I think that’s the theory of what you’re doing, but most of the time they just explode if you hit them hard? I don’t really know the reasoning behind this one.
But here’s the best one! The last time you do it, it’s sheep, and they give you dynamite! But here’s how it runs. It’s just awful.
You know what was cool about the Underground games? There were story specific events. It wasn’t just always the same few things in every level. There were things you had to do only once in the whole game.
Pro Skater 5 actually does that once or twice! But you can imagine how it turned out.
In this mission, I had to get my lift ticket punched. What does that mean? Who knows! I’d like to punch whoever designed this. So in theory, you’re supposed to jump on these lifts, which teleport you around the level. There’s a ticket on the wires sometimes. Here’s the thing. There are 6 different teleporters in the level, and only 3 have tickets. And this is a long downhill level, so they aren’t very close together. You know, that’s why there are teleporters. So you just have to keep guessing, and you’re guaranteed to run out of time before you figure out which ones have the tickets. Even once I figured out where they were, I still barely got through it in time for the AM score. I knew exactly where to go and did a near perfect run the best I could tell.
There may be a couple more types of missions, but I think you’ve seen enough by now.
So how was this game received? Everybody hated it. Of course they did. And they still do. I unlocked the FOURTH level in the game, and I got a rare achievement. Just under 10% of people actually get that far in the game. That’s abysmal. I couldn’t even believe that. I unlocked it while I was still in the second level. I played around an hour by that point. And 90% of people already gave up. The last level that gives an achievement is the Asteroid belt, with an unlock rate of 3.75%. And there are 3 more levels after that one! They just don’t have achievements. How many people get all the way to the underground? 1%? Well i’m finally a one percenter in something because I beat the whole game.
Actually, let me show you the moment when I beat the game. This is the very last mission, destroying some security cameras. Since there’s no story, it’s not like it built up to this moment or anything. It’s just a generic challenge like the rest of them. So I’m grinding around and breaking them, and then…
Yeah, the game froze when I was seconds away from not having to play this game anymore. It was the worst moment of my whole playthrough.
I went back and finished it, but I wasn’t recording anymore. Nothing happens. You just finish it like any other mission and that’s it. It loads the level again and you just skate around. You don’t unlock any videos or new characters or cheats or anything. You can complete every mission on sick, and then unlock some more challenges, but why would I do that? I hate myself, but even I don’t deserve that kind of treatment.
Something else that really bothered me about this game was the lack of secrets. One of the signatures of the Tony Hawk series is hidden areas and easter eggs. There was always something new that you only found the 5th time you played through a level. There’s the pool in school 2, there’s the underground area in Marseille. There’s tons of extras built in. But not here.
Remember the hanger in Tony Hawk 2? You could grind the helicopter blades and it would take off and change up the whole level? Well there’s a helicopter in the Bunker, which is just a Hanger ripoff. First thing I did was grind it. And look, the blades start spinning! What does it do? Nothing. It just sits there. It’ll never move. Like my copy of this game on the shelf once I trade it back in at gamestop the minute I’m done recording.
Here’s a fun little touch though. The Mountain level has a giant hockey foosball thing set up. You can knock the puck around. But it’s much more likely that these guys will crush you into the ground while you’re trying to rush around to complete all the stupid missions in this level.
I guess it’s possible there are secret areas and stuff that I didn’t find, but I think we both know that’s not true. It’s as plain and barebones as you can get. And it finished off the whole series with a whimper. The Tony Hawk series got a ton of people into skating, made millions of dollars, and made a huge impact on the gaming world too. And it was reduced to this. I would rather have seen Activision take Tony Hawk behind a shed and shoot him. It would have been less tragic. And I love Tony Hawk.
Could they have fixed this game? Knowing that they had a hard deadline and not a lot of time, is there anything they could have done to release a decent product? Yeah, of course.
What I would have loved to see them do is take Tony Hawk 2X and rerelease it. This is my favorite version of my favorite Tony Hawk game. It’s great. It’s got all the levels of one and two, but with steezy updated graphics for the original Xbox, so it has held up a lot better than the PS1 versions. It’s the same engine though. It plays exactly like Tony Hawk 2.
As a cheap cash grab, Activision could have thrown this on Xbox backward compatibility. It was still new at the time, but it was an option. It would have been cheaper than hiring a team to make a terrible game, and people would have liked it. This game came out really early on the Xbox, and not a lot of people played it. Maybe they would have had to hack it and switch out the music for licensing issues, but that’s okay. And after the Xbox One X came out, they could have done a 4K patch too. I’d probably play a 4K version of this every day of my life.
But maybe that’s not going to be worth enough money. How about they actually port this version to current gen systems natively. Call it Tony Hawk anniversary edition or something like that. Upscale the textures, throw in some achievements. I’d pay $40 again for it.
Now, unfortunately, it’s too late. Tony Hawk isn’t working with them anymore. I don’t know what the contracts say, but I think it’s pretty unlikely for them to be able to re-release a game. And the music would stop them from easily putting older versions up on backward compatibility too. The series is just dead. And it won’t be coming back.
This is the only Tony Hawk game you can play on a modern console. And it’s the worst.
The only glimmer of hope is Tony Hawk’s Skate Jam on Android. But come on, that can’t be any good. I guess I’ll find out soon.